0000845: Fiducial picker problems

(0001702)
nicole (administrator)
2010-05-17 17:44

Wendy can look into the mouse mode issue, I'll see if I can fine tune fiducial placement. Does it help at all to scale down the fiducial symbol sizes?

(0001706)
lassoan (updater)
2010-05-18 17:14

Problem 2) causes trouble for us, too. We cannot place a marker near an existing marker (highlights the existing marker instead of placing the new one).

This is an issue, because we ask the user to mark the actual needle target position by placing a new fiducial, however the planned position is already marked by a fiducial. If the actual position is close to the plan (which is expected) then the user has to zoom in a lot to be able to mark the correct position. It takes time and very inconvenient (especially because zooming of the slice viewer is quite slow).

(0001717)
wjp (administrator)
2010-05-20 10:54

Nicole,
To address this latter issue, is it possible to not "auto-pick" fiducials when we are hovering --instead to only pick-on-hover if pick-mode is selected?

I am investigating the multiple place/pick problem...

(0001718)
wjp (administrator)
2010-05-20 11:04

Yes, I believe I see what's going on. Even when a user selects persistent place, the widget's pick is resetting the mode.

I think we need to call all widgets' ProcessEventsOff() method when place mode is selected, just to override the possibility of picks. And then restore pickability with ProcessEventsOn() when place mode is deselected...

Certainly it's straightforward to process all fiducials this way, but not clear how to quiet all widgets... Suggestions for best way?

(0001719)
lassoan (updater)
2010-05-20 12:15

In fact "auto-pick", as implemented now causes many regressions: when the mouse is over a fiducial
-the magnified image area in the "Manipulate 3D View" frame is not updated
-RAS position in the status bar and on the image overlay are not updated
-new fiducials cannot be added
-etc.

So, the solution could be either enabling "auto-pick" only in "Pick-and-manipulate" mode, or fixing "auto-pick" by changing the mouse mode event handling (notify the slice viewer about mouse events even if the mouse is over a fiducial).

(0001744)
wjp (administrator)
2010-05-27 12:44

This is a two-part issue. One part is (we think) resolved, and the other part is being resolved. Can you confirm?

Part 1. (nicole is working on this). The fiducial-magic-hand is signaling that your mouse is hovering over something pickable. But the zone in which you get that report does not precisely spatially match the zone in which you can actually PICK the widget. So, you might press the mouse button down there to transform the view if you're not in the "sweet spot". Or you may successfully pick. Nicole is working on making the zone in which you see the magic hand correspond to the zone in which the widget is pickable.

Part 2. The magic hand and "auto-pick" mode was overriding our "persistent place" mode, making it difficult to place multiple fiducials close to one another. We believe this is now fixed -- if you enter persistent place mode, all pick functionality should be turned off until you exit persistent place mode. Can you confirm that this is working properly now? Thanks!

(0001745)
nicole (administrator)
2010-05-27 18:19

Looks like the individual handles that are used to control each seed that is part of the seed widget have their own tolerance, which is different than the tolerance set on the seed widget as a whole. The seed widget as a whole is the one controlling the hand/arrow cursor changes, but the handles control the ability to pick up and drag individual seeds.
Still trying to get the zones to overlap better.

(0001746)
nicole (administrator)
2010-05-28 13:41

Fix checked in for cursor changing when can't pick to the SlicerVTK git repository, so it should appear on the trunk with the next nightly build, and then in the branch when that's updated to use git as well.

(0001748)
lassoan (updater)
2010-05-28 15:39

I've tested on Slicer 3.6 branch rev 13532.

It is possible to add multiple fiducials close to each other in the 3D viewer. However, it doesn't work correctly in the slice viewers: when trying to add a new fiducial in a slice viewer near an existing fiducial, then the existing fiducial is picked (and not a new fiducial is added).

(0001749)
nicole (administrator)
2010-05-28 15:49

You can press the p key to place a fiducial in the 2d slice windows, that doesn't interact with mouse modes.

(0001750)
lassoan (updater)
2010-05-28 15:56

Pressing p for placing fiducials in slice viewers is a good workaround, but it is not a final solution (you cannot expect the users to remember such keyboard shortcuts; I knew that the shortcut existed, but didn't realize that I can use it to trick Slicer to add fiducials close to each other).

The same solution should be implemented for the slice viewer as for the 3D viewer.

(0001751)
wjp (administrator)
2010-05-28 16:18

Yes, we just chatted about this and of course we agree. Our goal is definitely to have the same interaction pattern in the 3D and Slice viewers... we'll work on the Slice Viewers in the next days (most likely after the long weekend?!)

(0001752)
lassoan (updater)
2010-05-28 16:23

Great, thanks a lot!

(0001755)
nicole (administrator)
2010-06-01 16:08

Fixed checked into the 3.6 branch for the 2d placing/picking at svn 13582. Checked into the trunk as svn 13583.

(0001756)
lassoan (updater)
2010-06-02 17:16

I've tested it in the 3.6 branch and fiducial placement now works well!

(0001804)
inorton (developer)
2010-06-22 17:18

It looks pretty good to me for most cases. The one problem area I see still is when there are models in the scene - particularly something big like a cortical outline, but also just tract streamlines. The model will often override the fiducial so that it is impossible to select and move (the selection hand does not appear).

(0001814)
inorton (developer)
2010-06-23 11:40

One more thing: with the new fiducials there is a problem with dragging the fiducials "through" other things when using the FiducialSeeding module. For instance if I drag the fiducial through the Coronal plane, the tracts seed until the fiducial hits the plane; the fiducial sphere keeps moving, but no tracts are updated. if I move the fiducial back across the plane, seeding resumes.

Notes
(0001702) nicole (administrator) 2010-05-17 17:44	Wendy can look into the mouse mode issue, I'll see if I can fine tune fiducial placement. Does it help at all to scale down the fiducial symbol sizes?

(0001706) lassoan (updater) 2010-05-18 17:14	Problem 2) causes trouble for us, too. We cannot place a marker near an existing marker (highlights the existing marker instead of placing the new one). This is an issue, because we ask the user to mark the actual needle target position by placing a new fiducial, however the planned position is already marked by a fiducial. If the actual position is close to the plan (which is expected) then the user has to zoom in a lot to be able to mark the correct position. It takes time and very inconvenient (especially because zooming of the slice viewer is quite slow).

(0001717) wjp (administrator) 2010-05-20 10:54	Nicole, To address this latter issue, is it possible to not "auto-pick" fiducials when we are hovering --instead to only pick-on-hover if pick-mode is selected? I am investigating the multiple place/pick problem...

(0001718) wjp (administrator) 2010-05-20 11:04	Yes, I believe I see what's going on. Even when a user selects persistent place, the widget's pick is resetting the mode. I think we need to call all widgets' ProcessEventsOff() method when place mode is selected, just to override the possibility of picks. And then restore pickability with ProcessEventsOn() when place mode is deselected... Certainly it's straightforward to process all fiducials this way, but not clear how to quiet all widgets... Suggestions for best way?

(0001719) lassoan (updater) 2010-05-20 12:15	In fact "auto-pick", as implemented now causes many regressions: when the mouse is over a fiducial -the magnified image area in the "Manipulate 3D View" frame is not updated -RAS position in the status bar and on the image overlay are not updated -new fiducials cannot be added -etc. So, the solution could be either enabling "auto-pick" only in "Pick-and-manipulate" mode, or fixing "auto-pick" by changing the mouse mode event handling (notify the slice viewer about mouse events even if the mouse is over a fiducial).

(0001744) wjp (administrator) 2010-05-27 12:44	This is a two-part issue. One part is (we think) resolved, and the other part is being resolved. Can you confirm? Part 1. (nicole is working on this). The fiducial-magic-hand is signaling that your mouse is hovering over something pickable. But the zone in which you get that report does not precisely spatially match the zone in which you can actually PICK the widget. So, you might press the mouse button down there to transform the view if you're not in the "sweet spot". Or you may successfully pick. Nicole is working on making the zone in which you see the magic hand correspond to the zone in which the widget is pickable. Part 2. The magic hand and "auto-pick" mode was overriding our "persistent place" mode, making it difficult to place multiple fiducials close to one another. We believe this is now fixed -- if you enter persistent place mode, all pick functionality should be turned off until you exit persistent place mode. Can you confirm that this is working properly now? Thanks!

(0001745) nicole (administrator) 2010-05-27 18:19	Looks like the individual handles that are used to control each seed that is part of the seed widget have their own tolerance, which is different than the tolerance set on the seed widget as a whole. The seed widget as a whole is the one controlling the hand/arrow cursor changes, but the handles control the ability to pick up and drag individual seeds. Still trying to get the zones to overlap better.

(0001746) nicole (administrator) 2010-05-28 13:41	Fix checked in for cursor changing when can't pick to the SlicerVTK git repository, so it should appear on the trunk with the next nightly build, and then in the branch when that's updated to use git as well.

(0001748) lassoan (updater) 2010-05-28 15:39	I've tested on Slicer 3.6 branch rev 13532. It is possible to add multiple fiducials close to each other in the 3D viewer. However, it doesn't work correctly in the slice viewers: when trying to add a new fiducial in a slice viewer near an existing fiducial, then the existing fiducial is picked (and not a new fiducial is added).

(0001749) nicole (administrator) 2010-05-28 15:49	You can press the p key to place a fiducial in the 2d slice windows, that doesn't interact with mouse modes.

(0001750) lassoan (updater) 2010-05-28 15:56	Pressing p for placing fiducials in slice viewers is a good workaround, but it is not a final solution (you cannot expect the users to remember such keyboard shortcuts; I knew that the shortcut existed, but didn't realize that I can use it to trick Slicer to add fiducials close to each other). The same solution should be implemented for the slice viewer as for the 3D viewer.

(0001751) wjp (administrator) 2010-05-28 16:18	Yes, we just chatted about this and of course we agree. Our goal is definitely to have the same interaction pattern in the 3D and Slice viewers... we'll work on the Slice Viewers in the next days (most likely after the long weekend?!)

(0001752) lassoan (updater) 2010-05-28 16:23	Great, thanks a lot!

(0001755) nicole (administrator) 2010-06-01 16:08	Fixed checked into the 3.6 branch for the 2d placing/picking at svn 13582. Checked into the trunk as svn 13583.

(0001756) lassoan (updater) 2010-06-02 17:16	I've tested it in the 3.6 branch and fiducial placement now works well!

(0001804) inorton (developer) 2010-06-22 17:18	It looks pretty good to me for most cases. The one problem area I see still is when there are models in the scene - particularly something big like a cortical outline, but also just tract streamlines. The model will often override the fiducial so that it is impossible to select and move (the selection hand does not appear).

(0001814) inorton (developer) 2010-06-23 11:40	One more thing: with the new fiducials there is a problem with dragging the fiducials "through" other things when using the FiducialSeeding module. For instance if I drag the fiducial through the Coronal plane, the tracts seed until the fiducial hits the plane; the fiducial sphere keeps moving, but no tracts are updated. if I move the fiducial back across the plane, seeding resumes.

Issue History
Date Modified	Username	Field	Change
2010-05-13 16:15	inorton	New Issue
2010-05-17 17:44	nicole	Note Added: 0001702
2010-05-17 17:44	nicole	Assigned To	=> wjp
2010-05-17 17:44	nicole	Status	new => assigned
2010-05-18 17:14	lassoan	Note Added: 0001706
2010-05-20 10:54	wjp	Note Added: 0001717
2010-05-20 11:04	wjp	Note Added: 0001718
2010-05-20 12:15	lassoan	Note Added: 0001719
2010-05-27 12:44	wjp	Note Added: 0001744
2010-05-27 12:44	wjp	Status	assigned => resolved
2010-05-27 12:44	wjp	Resolution	open => fixed
2010-05-27 18:19	nicole	Note Added: 0001745
2010-05-28 13:41	nicole	Note Added: 0001746
2010-05-28 15:39	lassoan	Note Added: 0001748
2010-05-28 15:49	nicole	Note Added: 0001749
2010-05-28 15:56	lassoan	Note Added: 0001750
2010-05-28 16:18	wjp	Note Added: 0001751
2010-05-28 16:23	lassoan	Note Added: 0001752
2010-06-01 16:08	nicole	Note Added: 0001755
2010-06-02 17:16	lassoan	Note Added: 0001756
2010-06-22 17:18	inorton	Note Added: 0001804
2010-06-23 11:40	inorton	Note Added: 0001814

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